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hey y'all Ryan Sprague here as you all

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know this summer in the skies podcast is

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always free to consume but it isn't free

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somewhere in the skies patreon can pay

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you on a monthly basis you give what you

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something truly communal and remember

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www.personalfitnesstrainerstlouis.com

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[Music]

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if anything happens to me investigate

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this was a text sent to Vanessa Bates by

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her son in July of 2016

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several weeks prior max Pierce was

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scheduled to speak at a conference in

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Warsaw Poland the topics of his

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presentation would center around several

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conspiracy theories he believed he'd

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uncovered which included alleged

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government cover-ups of UFOs mind

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control and underground bases housing

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clandestine military experiments

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involving aliens it was the perfect mix

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for any conspiracy theorist and for

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those who had gathered in Warsaw to hear

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Speer speak but they wouldn't get that

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chance and Spears would leave behind yet

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another conspiracy theory to plague the

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paranoid minds of his supporters up

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until today

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max Pierce died on a sofa only days

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before his presentation the sole witness

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was Monika Duval thought to be a close

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friend and possible romantic interest of

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Spears he'd been staying at her flat in

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Warsaw preparing for the highly

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anticipated talk he would be giving but

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she found Spears that morning face up a

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dark black liquid seeping from his mouth

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that he had seemingly vomited up during

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the night finding him in this horrifying

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state to fall called for an ambulance

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but when the paramedics arrived they

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were unable to revive him and he was

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pronounced dead on the scene when word

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got back to Vanessa Bates back in

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England that her son was dead meanwhile

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Polish authorities performed no autopsy

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or post-mortem on Spears this was the

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first warning sign that something

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off the body was then handed over to

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British authorities mysteriously they

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ruled that Spears had died of natural

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causes despite the strange black liquid

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that devold claimed he vomited up that

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fateful night this was the second

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warning vanessa was then given

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possession of max Spears cell phone and

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computer and she claimed that both had

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been wiped completely clean

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not a single file text phone number or

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anything could be found on any of his

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devices It was as if his digital

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footprint had been erased

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this was the third and final warning for

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Vanessa that she had to heed her son's

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last words to her quote your boys in

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trouble if anything happens to me

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investigate and so she did and upon

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learning of how deep her son had truly

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gone down the rabbit hole in terms of

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his UFO and conspiracy work she began to

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truly wonder if he gotten too close to

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the truth or perhaps too far from

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reality more on max Pierce at the end of

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the show right now I want to talk about

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the notion of targeting UFO researchers

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I remember early on in my UFO research

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and investigative work I was sitting in

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a bar with my father in Syracuse New

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York and after a few beers we were

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getting pretty deep into Roswell and

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Rendlesham and particularly into the

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government cover-up aspect to UFO

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history and lore the more cases I

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brought up the more I could see my

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father looking rather concerned or maybe

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he was just the beer but what he asked

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me stuck with me up until today he asked

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me if I ever worried about the

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government coming after me or even more

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nefarious silencing me for possibly

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coming too close to the truth about UFOs

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and every member my knee-jerk reaction

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was to laugh it off I mean I'd been

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asked this many times in the past by

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curious minds but when it came to my own

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father staring at me with a straight

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face and asking me that I could tell

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that it wasn't an innocent inquiry my

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father was legitimately worried for his

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son's safety because the work he was

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doing a worry I'm sure of anticipates

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also had for her child but unfortunately

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her greatest nightmares had come true

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even I tried to ease my father's fears

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by stating that no UFO researcher had

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ever been killed or possibly murdered in

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the pursuit of finding the truth or

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uncovering a grand conspiracy or

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cover-up of the UFO phenomenon but I

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couldn't stop thinking about it after

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that night in the bar and that's when I

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flipped on the researcher mode and

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started digging and I soon realized that

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using my father's fears was the least of

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my worries

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I was faced with the possibility that

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maybe I was wrong and maybe some who

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knew too much about UFOs were in fact

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being surveilled and targeted their

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suspicious deaths left me wondering if

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this was just the theories of those

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seeking importance and relevancy where

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there was none or if they'd actually

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been killed to keep the truth hidden

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Morris Ketchum Jessup died April 20th

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1959 in 1955 of books of the UFO and

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intelligence communities by storm and

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instantly became a national bestseller

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the case for the UFO written by Morris K

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Jessup was an in-depth look at the UFO

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phenomenon to this day it remains an

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extremely comprehensive case study

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having begun his work as an instructor

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of mathematics and astrophysics Jessup

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would eventually receive his doctorate

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in astrophysics from the University of

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Michigan he would go on to study ancient

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ruins such as Easter Island and the

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megalithic stones of Peru as time

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progressed he even began to look into

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in 1956 just a plan to travel to Mexico

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to serve a meteorite craters but when

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word got out that he had been writing

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books about UFOs the University of

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Michigan the primary source of funding

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for Jessup's expedition wasn't exactly

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thrilled the university quickly pulled

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the funding and the trip never happened

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time progressed and by 1958 Jessup had

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separated from his wife stopped writing

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books and moved back to his hometown of

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Indiana he began to suffer from a deep

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depression in April 1959 he contacted

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his longtime friend popular radio show

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host Long John Neville Jessup sent

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Neville an extremely dark letter that

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Neville would later claim was a straight

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suicide note Neville hoped that the 59

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year old Jessup wasn't actually planning

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on going through with it but on April

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20th 1959 Jessup was found at

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approximately 6:30 p.m. at his home in

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Florida having wired a hose from his

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exhaust pipe into the window of his car

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the cause of death was carbon monoxide

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poisoning but a few things stood out

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about the suicide first the opening in

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the window of Jessup's car door where

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the hose had been inserted was stuffed

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with wet rags to keep the carbon

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monoxide from seeping out but there was

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no source of water in the car that

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Joseph could have used to dampen the

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rags granted Jessup could have wet the

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rags before he got in the car but it

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seems suspicious

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nonetheless even more suspicious however

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is the fact that contrary to Florida law

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no autopsy was performed on Jessup to

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determine the cause of death even if it

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were a suicide there wasn't even a hint

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of interest in looking deeper into the

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death was something being hidden and

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completely overlooked some believe

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Jessup was murdered Richard Ogden a UFO

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researcher was the first to question the

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suicide claiming that Jessup was

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receiving more information about UFOs

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than he was letting on and at a time

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when he was extremely vulnerable someone

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sent Jessup instructions on how to

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properly commit suicide Dorothy

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Kilgallen died November 8th 1965 as the

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most famous syndicated female journalist

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of her time Dorothy Kilgallen was used

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to controversy she was constantly

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rubbing elbows with the likes of Marilyn

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Monroe Frank Sinatra the Hollywood elite

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and the political celebrities that would

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find fame of their own in the most

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scandalous of ways this often left

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Dorothy prone to threats by those of

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whom she may have shed a not so bright

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light on indeed I do and looking forward

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to sharing them with our listeners I

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know you've got lots of fascinating

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information too but first I hear from a

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friend of ours but 1965 who proved to be

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the darkest year for the journalists the

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year when she herself became a tragic

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headline one would find it difficult to

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rank the contributions chuckling made to

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the world of journalism but there is no

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doubt that some headlines she helped

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spread across both America and Britain

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took precedence over others and put her

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vastly ahead of her journalistic

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counterparts the first was the 1954

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murder trial of dr. Sam Sheppard

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Coquelin questioned the guilty verdict

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in a syndicated column of hers stating

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that the prosecution didn't prove

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he was guilty anymore than they prove

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that there are pinheaded men on Mars her

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comments about men on Mars would stretch

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even further when she would veer her

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focus towards the topic of UFOs that

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same year she touched on many reports of

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sightings crashes and retrievals

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supposedly occurring in Britain at the

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time the byline of her first UFO related

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article stated quote flying saucers are

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regarded as of such vital importance

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that they will be the subject of a

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special hush-hush meeting of the world

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military heads next summer end quote

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in a separate article that ran in the

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New York Journal American the Cincinnati

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Enquirer and the Washington Post

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calculon's stated that British

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scientists and airmen after examining

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the wreckage of one mysterious flying

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ship are convinced these strange aerial

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objects are not optical illusions or

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Soviet interventions but our flying

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saucers which originated on another

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planet Coquelin claimed that her source

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of this information was a British

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high-ranking official preferred to

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remain anonymous she quoted this

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official as telling her that quote on

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the basis of our inquiry thus far the

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saucers were staffed by small men

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probably under 4 feet tall it's

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frightening but there is no denying that

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the flying saucers come from another

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planet

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end quote after close examination Gordon

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Crichton editor of the flying saucer

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review allege that the information was

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given to Calculon by Lord Mountbatten of

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Burma while they attended a cocktail

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party the third topic of great interest

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that Calculon found herself tangled up

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in was the John F Kennedy assassination

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soon after the death of President

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Kennedy Coquelin claimed that she had

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interviewed jack ruby inside the Dallas

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00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:39,420
courthouse after he had shot and killed

277
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,060
Lee Harvey Oswald the contents of this

278
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:45,279
interview were never made public and

279
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:48,399
instead only stirred the conspiratorial

280
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:50,649
pot as Kilgallon would eventually

281
00:13:54,340 --> 00:13:53,410
suggest that the CIA had hired members

282
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,350
of the

283
00:14:00,250 --> 00:13:56,720
via for assassinations on both Fidel

284
00:14:02,860 --> 00:14:00,260
Castro and President Kennedy perhaps

285
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:02,870
foreshadowing her own demise Kilgallen

286
00:14:07,810 --> 00:14:05,450
was once quoted as saying this story

287
00:14:10,570 --> 00:14:07,820
isn't going to die as long as there's a

288
00:14:13,810 --> 00:14:10,580
real reporter alive and there are not a

289
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:13,820
lot of them alive it was on an autumn

290
00:14:18,460 --> 00:14:16,310
morning in New York City when calculon's

291
00:14:21,310 --> 00:14:18,470
body was found in her brownstone

292
00:14:23,770 --> 00:14:21,320
apartment she had apparently succumbed

293
00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:23,780
to a fatal dose of sleeping pills and

294
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:27,260
alcohol eerily of the same fashion as

295
00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:29,330
that of Marilyn Monroe with whom

296
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:31,670
Gilliland had publicly become a close

297
00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:34,490
friend of many believed it to be an

298
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:37,730
accidental suicide others believed she

299
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:39,710
was permanently silenced for the wealth

300
00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:41,510
of information she was bringing forward

301
00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:45,410
about the affirmation topics either way

302
00:14:51,250 --> 00:14:47,750
the medical examiner who handled her

303
00:14:54,670 --> 00:14:51,260
death left a subtle but mysterious note

304
00:14:59,980 --> 00:14:54,680
typing simply circumstances undetermined

305
00:15:06,550 --> 00:14:59,990
on her death certificate Frank Edwards

306
00:15:08,860 --> 00:15:06,560
died June 22nd 1967 Frank Edwards had

307
00:15:10,990 --> 00:15:08,870
always had a knack for radio and it

308
00:15:14,050 --> 00:15:11,000
showed beginning his career as a

309
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:14,060
broadcaster in 1924 he would go on to be

310
00:15:21,580 --> 00:15:16,930
a White House correspondent from 1949 to

311
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:21,590
1954 in a 1953 poll Edwards were cited

312
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:23,930
as one of the top three broadcasters in

313
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:26,570
the nation delving deep into many

314
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:29,450
different topics his true UFO colors

315
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:31,970
began to show as his broadcasts boasted

316
00:15:40,090 --> 00:15:37,850
more and more died June 22nd 1967 Frank

317
00:15:42,970 --> 00:15:40,100
Edwards had always had a knack for radio

318
00:15:46,030 --> 00:15:42,980
and it showed beginning his career as a

319
00:15:48,930 --> 00:15:46,040
broadcaster in 1924 he would go on to be

320
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:48,940
a White House correspondent from 1949 to

321
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:53,570
1954 in a 1953 poll Edwards were cited

322
00:15:58,570 --> 00:15:55,940
as one of the top three broadcasters in

323
00:16:01,450 --> 00:15:58,580
the nation delving deep into many

324
00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:01,460
different topics his true UFO colors

325
00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:03,950
began to show as his broadcasts boasted

326
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:06,110
more and more topics that bordered the

327
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:06,970
frame

328
00:16:18,310 --> 00:16:09,210
primarily that of the extra-terrestrial

329
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:39,270
you

330
00:17:12,810 --> 00:16:47,330
[Music]

331
00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:16,890
by the mid-1960s AdWords radio show

332
00:17:22,329 --> 00:17:20,300
strangest of all was heard on hundreds

333
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:22,339
of radio stations across the country and

334
00:17:27,370 --> 00:17:25,370
soon hit newspaper syndication creating

335
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:27,380
a whole new column for Edwards that

336
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:29,930
spanned across 300 different American

337
00:17:36,010 --> 00:17:33,050
newspapers he was now the most outspoken

338
00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:36,020
radio broadcaster turned writer on the

339
00:17:42,220 --> 00:17:39,590
topic of UFOs and it didn't stop there

340
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:42,230
Edwards would rack up an exceptional

341
00:17:46,420 --> 00:17:44,570
writing resume authoring a respectable

342
00:17:48,820 --> 00:17:46,430
seven books on different types of

343
00:17:51,490 --> 00:17:48,830
phenomena among the most notable of his

344
00:17:54,370 --> 00:17:51,500
books were flying saucers serious

345
00:17:57,010 --> 00:17:54,380
business which was published in 1966 and

346
00:18:00,550 --> 00:17:57,020
flying saucers here and now which was

347
00:18:02,530 --> 00:18:00,560
published in 1967 in a paper titled

348
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:02,540
controversial deaths of UFO

349
00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:04,970
investigators researchers and authors

350
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:07,790
Peter Robbins acknowledged Edwards

351
00:18:14,770 --> 00:18:10,730
interest in the UFO phenomenon CD in the

352
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:14,780
late 1940s and peaking in 1953 the year

353
00:18:19,180 --> 00:18:16,610
in which Edwards received an advanced

354
00:18:21,670 --> 00:18:19,190
copy of the flying saucers are real by

355
00:18:24,790 --> 00:18:21,680
decorated marine pilot major Donald

356
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:24,800
Keough in the book Kehoe comes to the

357
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,570
controversial conclusion that the

358
00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:28,880
extra-terrestrial hypothesis is the most

359
00:18:34,540 --> 00:18:31,550
likely answer to the UFO phenomenon and

360
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:34,550
that military officials know this but

361
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:37,460
refused to acknowledge it Kehoe and

362
00:18:42,610 --> 00:18:39,650
Edwards connected on this theory and

363
00:18:44,110 --> 00:18:42,620
Kehoe soon became a regular unread words

364
00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:44,120
radio program

365
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:47,310
Edwards took on a very integral role as

366
00:18:50,990 --> 00:18:49,170
the member of the Board of Governors for

367
00:18:55,220 --> 00:18:51,000
the national investigations Committee on

368
00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:55,230
aerial phenomena or night gap from 1957

369
00:19:00,170 --> 00:18:58,170
until his death as part of the

370
00:19:01,970 --> 00:19:00,180
organization he would eventually attend

371
00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:01,980
a special meeting in New York City

372
00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:04,230
called the conference of scientific

373
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:07,350
ufologists the first morning at the

374
00:19:12,020 --> 00:19:09,450
conference found the organizer standing

375
00:19:14,750 --> 00:19:12,030
before more than a thousand people to

376
00:19:17,420 --> 00:19:14,760
announce that Frank Edwards had passed

377
00:19:20,420 --> 00:19:17,430
away a few minutes before midnight the

378
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:20,430
night prior the importance of noting

379
00:19:25,010 --> 00:19:22,650
that it was before midnight stems from

380
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:25,020
many believing the Edwards and all too

381
00:19:29,450 --> 00:19:26,910
coincidentally died on the anniversary

382
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:29,460
of the famous Kenneth Arnold sightings

383
00:19:35,420 --> 00:19:32,850
of 1947 although it wasn't the exact

384
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:35,430
anniversary it was spared only by

385
00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:38,520
minutes this begin to feel the fires of

386
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:40,560
suspicion among many in the room that

387
00:19:44,990 --> 00:19:42,810
day those who are close to Edwards

388
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:45,000
stated that his health had never been

389
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:48,120
poor suspicions only grew when Edwards

390
00:19:53,330 --> 00:19:50,700
obituary in The New York Times read that

391
00:19:57,230 --> 00:19:53,340
he had apparently died of a heart attack

392
00:19:59,150 --> 00:19:57,240
the word apparently being noted if this

393
00:20:01,790 --> 00:19:59,160
weren't enough to question this sudden

394
00:20:04,490 --> 00:20:01,800
tragedy long-drawn nibel would take to

395
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,500
the airwaves to explain that he had been

396
00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:07,200
shown two unsigned letters prior to the

397
00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:09,660
conference these letters both stated

398
00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:11,940
that Edwards would not live to see the

399
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:14,580
end of the conference whether these

400
00:20:20,930 --> 00:20:16,850
letters were a warning or a threat

401
00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:20,940
remained in debate murder was resting

402
00:20:26,030 --> 00:20:23,640
lightly on everyone's lips but quickly

403
00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:26,040
became heavier when Neville related a

404
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:28,500
phone call he had received from UFO

405
00:20:33,530 --> 00:20:31,290
author gray Barker days before the

406
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:33,540
conference as well in the phone call

407
00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:36,810
Barker told Nebel quote John something

408
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:38,790
happened a few minutes ago that really

409
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,130
shook me up I got a phone call from a

410
00:20:45,740 --> 00:20:43,440
man who said that Frank would not live

411
00:20:47,540 --> 00:20:45,750
to see the end of the conference that's

412
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:47,550
all he said before he hung up

413
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:50,809
end quote Barker had been known to

414
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:53,090
the truth a bit during the golden age of

415
00:20:57,519 --> 00:20:55,490
the saucer craze but never was always a

416
00:20:59,649 --> 00:20:57,529
straight shooter he wouldn't have

417
00:21:02,100 --> 00:20:59,659
broadcast these events on his show if he

418
00:21:04,509 --> 00:21:02,110
didn't believe there was truth to it and

419
00:21:06,730 --> 00:21:04,519
with the sheer amount of coincidences

420
00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:06,740
occurring that fade nationally touched

421
00:21:11,769 --> 00:21:09,320
on many controversial aspects of the UFO

422
00:21:13,989 --> 00:21:11,779
phenomenon including the alien-human

423
00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:13,999
hybrid ization theories brought forth by

424
00:21:18,940 --> 00:21:16,340
several abduction researchers and

425
00:21:20,950 --> 00:21:18,950
abductees remote even begged the

426
00:21:23,980 --> 00:21:20,960
question of whether aliens were guilty

427
00:21:26,639 --> 00:21:23,990
of a more sinister act such as

428
00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:26,649
harvesting humans for their organs as

429
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:29,840
time progressed Rimmel subscription base

430
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:32,210
began to grow some believe he was

431
00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:34,700
treading rough waters as his theories

432
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:36,830
became not only more elaborate but he

433
00:21:40,810 --> 00:21:38,570
started to dig deeper into the black

434
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:40,820
budget projects around Dulce New Mexico

435
00:21:46,299 --> 00:21:43,369
and other underground military bases

436
00:21:50,039 --> 00:21:46,309
that were supposedly housing aliens

437
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:50,049
working alongside humans in August 1993

438
00:21:56,190 --> 00:21:52,850
Ramones death put an end to his

439
00:21:58,899 --> 00:21:56,200
investigations in silence him for good

440
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,909
Ramon was found dead in a park in

441
00:22:01,899 --> 00:22:00,320
Portland Oregon

442
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:01,909
having suffered from a fatal gunshot

443
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:04,730
wound to the head by shooting himself

444
00:22:09,129 --> 00:22:08,210
through the mouth a bloody tragedy to

445
00:22:11,619 --> 00:22:09,139
say the least

446
00:22:13,230 --> 00:22:11,629
but one thing seemed to be missing from

447
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:13,240
the barrel of the gun

448
00:22:18,970 --> 00:22:17,090
blood Ramon was found with the gun next

449
00:22:21,460 --> 00:22:18,980
to his hand but even more mysterious

450
00:22:24,999 --> 00:22:21,470
than the lack of blood was the lack of

451
00:22:29,019 --> 00:22:25,009
finger prints none were found on the gun

452
00:22:31,899 --> 00:22:29,029
also Ramos and written suicide note that

453
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:31,909
eventually surfaced was clearly written

454
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:34,940
by a left-handed person Ramon was

455
00:22:39,609 --> 00:22:38,480
right-handed perhaps an autopsy could

456
00:22:41,970 --> 00:22:39,619
have helped to answer some of the

457
00:22:44,889 --> 00:22:41,980
questions about this apparent suicide

458
00:22:48,009 --> 00:22:44,899
but just like Joseph before him no

459
00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:48,019
autopsy was performed and ramose body

460
00:22:54,430 --> 00:22:51,190
was cremated less than 24 hours later

461
00:22:56,169 --> 00:22:54,440
even more interesting was what Ramon was

462
00:22:59,049 --> 00:22:56,179
working on at the time of

463
00:23:01,269 --> 00:22:59,059
death according to a fox news broadcast

464
00:23:03,850 --> 00:23:01,279
covering his death it was rumored that

465
00:23:07,029 --> 00:23:03,860
he was working on an investigation into

466
00:23:09,609 --> 00:23:07,039
the deaths of over 30 British scientists

467
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,619
who had allegedly committed suicide and

468
00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:11,919
all of whom had ties to top-secret

469
00:23:17,739 --> 00:23:15,710
projects with British Defense ramose

470
00:23:20,259 --> 00:23:17,749
death would prove to be one of the more

471
00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:20,269
questionable but even more questionable

472
00:23:24,850 --> 00:23:22,190
would be the death of someone he was

473
00:23:27,789 --> 00:23:24,860
working closely with and would suffer

474
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:27,799
the same murky and suspicious fate not

475
00:23:37,659 --> 00:23:33,350
three years later Phil Schneider died

476
00:23:40,269 --> 00:23:37,669
January 17 1996 a self-taught geologist

477
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:40,279
and explosives expert Phil Schneider

478
00:23:44,710 --> 00:23:42,529
would come forward with a story so

479
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:44,720
controversial that even the claims of

480
00:23:50,590 --> 00:23:47,690
former whistleblower Bob Lazar paled in

481
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:50,600
comparison to the accusations Schneider

482
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:53,210
would reveal to the public it was an

483
00:23:59,169 --> 00:23:55,490
area 51 that Schneider was speaking out

484
00:24:01,210 --> 00:23:59,179
about but more than 13 underground

485
00:24:03,879 --> 00:24:01,220
facilities throughout the country that

486
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:03,889
he had allegedly been stationed at to

487
00:24:08,230 --> 00:24:05,450
work on many different projects

488
00:24:10,509 --> 00:24:08,240
including structural engineering perhaps

489
00:24:13,060 --> 00:24:10,519
the most popular of these spaces was the

490
00:24:15,609 --> 00:24:13,070
rumored bio engineering facility in

491
00:24:17,769 --> 00:24:15,619
Dulce New Mexico while working there

492
00:24:21,129 --> 00:24:17,779
Schneider claimed that he witnessed grey

493
00:24:23,889 --> 00:24:21,139
humanoid aliens working alongside humans

494
00:24:27,009 --> 00:24:23,899
on different levels of the facility an

495
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:27,019
incident occurred in 1979 causing a

496
00:24:32,889 --> 00:24:30,129
shootout amongst the aliens and humans

497
00:24:36,639 --> 00:24:32,899
supposedly over 60 members of The Secret

498
00:24:39,639 --> 00:24:36,649
Service FBI agents and black berets were

499
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:39,649
killed countless gray aliens had

500
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:42,110
perished as well during the shootout

501
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:44,480
Shanter claimed that he was injured by

502
00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:46,490
the blast of a beam weapon by one of

503
00:24:50,770 --> 00:24:49,220
these aliens which left a huge scar on

504
00:24:53,050 --> 00:24:50,780
his chest

505
00:24:55,570 --> 00:24:53,060
he would later take the position that

506
00:24:58,150 --> 00:24:55,580
his contact with the beam weapon was the

507
00:25:01,930 --> 00:24:58,160
cause of a cancer he would be diagnosed

508
00:25:06,910 --> 00:25:01,940
with years later 66 Secret Service

509
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:06,920
agents raised black berets crack troops

510
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:08,960
lost their lives because the government

511
00:25:17,260 --> 00:25:14,000
our United States government lied did

512
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:17,270
not tell us anything about the alien

513
00:25:25,210 --> 00:25:20,690
threat there's a war underneath there

514
00:25:28,690 --> 00:25:25,220
and I'm talking dead serious it's been

515
00:25:32,770 --> 00:25:28,700
going on since that time since late

516
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:32,780
August of 1979 our military the Russian

517
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:34,610
military basically the militaries of the

518
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:37,990
world have been in constant conflict

519
00:25:44,170 --> 00:25:41,570
with the outer space alien the rumored

520
00:25:46,660 --> 00:25:44,180
event at Dulce had been twisted poked

521
00:25:50,140 --> 00:25:46,670
and prodded throughout the annals of UFO

522
00:25:53,170 --> 00:25:50,150
lore but Sneijder would maintain a core

523
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:53,180
group of accusations in lectures he gave

524
00:25:59,260 --> 00:25:56,450
across the country for years to go some

525
00:26:03,090 --> 00:25:59,270
of these accusations were sensational at

526
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:03,100
the very least and some more sobering

527
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:05,090
Sneijder claimed that our stealth

528
00:26:10,780 --> 00:26:07,220
technology was being back engineered

529
00:26:12,490 --> 00:26:10,790
from crashed UFOs aids was a population

530
00:26:15,310 --> 00:26:12,500
control method initiated by the National

531
00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:15,320
ordnance laboratory and that both the

532
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:17,390
World Trade Center and Oklahoma City

533
00:26:23,890 --> 00:26:20,690
tragedies included nuclear detonated

534
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:23,900
devices whether you believe the claims

535
00:26:27,940 --> 00:26:25,910
made by Schneider at his lectures or not

536
00:26:31,030 --> 00:26:27,950
one thing was for certain

537
00:26:33,450 --> 00:26:31,040
his death would raise just as many

538
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:33,460
questions as his vast array of

539
00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:35,930
accusations claiming that numerous

540
00:26:39,970 --> 00:26:37,430
attempts had been made on his life

541
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:39,980
including an incident in which someone

542
00:26:44,260 --> 00:26:41,810
removed the lug nuts from the tigers of

543
00:26:46,810 --> 00:26:44,270
his car he was able to outsmart those

544
00:26:48,670 --> 00:26:46,820
who wanted him gone but when a concerned

545
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:48,680
friend of his hadn't heard from him in a

546
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:51,170
few days he went to his house and saw

547
00:26:56,470 --> 00:26:53,690
his car their mail piled up in front of

548
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:56,480
the door and no answer after incessant

549
00:26:59,940 --> 00:26:57,250
knocking

550
00:27:03,210 --> 00:26:59,950
the door the police eventually showed up

551
00:27:04,980 --> 00:27:03,220
in forced their way in the smell was

552
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:04,990
unbearable when they function eiders

553
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:07,330
body later concluding that he had been

554
00:27:15,180 --> 00:27:12,760
dead for at least five days word spread

555
00:27:17,220 --> 00:27:15,190
of his death and the detective on site

556
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:17,230
determined that the cause of death was a

557
00:27:23,190 --> 00:27:20,950
stroke but as the day's progressed more

558
00:27:26,250 --> 00:27:23,200
and more grisly details emerged

559
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:26,260
including evidence that a rubber tube or

560
00:27:32,070 --> 00:27:28,960
a catheter was found beneath the flaps

561
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:32,080
of skin in Schneider's neck it had been

562
00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:33,970
wrapped around his neck three times

563
00:27:39,659 --> 00:27:37,990
before it was double knotted the failure

564
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:39,669
to discover this evidence during the

565
00:27:45,899 --> 00:27:42,970
initial investigation was an inexcusable

566
00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:45,909
oversight by the police and the medical

567
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:48,700
examiner who adopted the original cause

568
00:27:54,810 --> 00:27:51,250
of death and concluded that Schneider

569
00:27:59,039 --> 00:27:54,820
had committed suicide Snyder's widow

570
00:28:00,360 --> 00:27:59,049
cynthia drea was furious she demanded

571
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,370
that the police begin a murder

572
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:02,799
investigation and claimed that Schneider

573
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:04,870
would never have taken his own life as

574
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:07,090
his religious beliefs denounced the

575
00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:09,010
action and he had plans to write a

576
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:12,190
tell-all book about his many claims but

577
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:14,970
the investigation never came to fruition

578
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:18,130
even more suspicious was that only days

579
00:28:23,460 --> 00:28:21,039
after Snyder's death Dreier claimed that

580
00:28:26,490 --> 00:28:23,470
intelligence agents had searched the

581
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:26,500
premises thoroughly using many assets

582
00:28:30,590 --> 00:28:28,690
including personal photos that have been

583
00:28:33,299 --> 00:28:30,600
tucked away for years

584
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:33,309
Snyder's death sparked much debate in

585
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,010
and out of the UFO community but one

586
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:38,240
thing was for certain

587
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:40,610
when you speak about highly sensitive

588
00:28:46,570 --> 00:28:43,090
material no matter how outlandish

589
00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:46,580
someone is always listening and not

590
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:53,720
always with the best of intentions the

591
00:28:59,980 --> 00:28:56,810
often dark and morbid stories of those

592
00:29:04,270 --> 00:28:59,990
who've just heard can easily fuel

593
00:29:07,380 --> 00:29:04,280
conspiracy theories they are tantalizing

594
00:29:10,690 --> 00:29:07,390
disturbing and most definitely

595
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:10,700
mysterious and this is the perfect

596
00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:14,240
formula to create speculation but with

597
00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:17,150
speculation comes a responsibility for

598
00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:20,150
those telling the stories to focus not

599
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:23,240
on the grisly deaths but perhaps to

600
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:26,080
shine a light on the lives of those lost

601
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:29,600
humanize them each of the individuals

602
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:32,450
above pursued a truth that many of us

603
00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:35,090
seek - a mystery that will continue to

604
00:29:42,580 --> 00:29:38,420
elude us every step of the way and I

605
00:29:45,100 --> 00:29:42,590
commend them greatly for that I'm sure

606
00:29:48,540 --> 00:29:45,110
none of them were perfect by any means

607
00:29:52,030 --> 00:29:48,550
but they each had family friends

608
00:29:55,420 --> 00:29:52,040
supporters and probably detractors but

609
00:29:57,220 --> 00:29:55,430
they were somebody and in the memories

610
00:29:59,310 --> 00:29:57,230
of those who cared for them they

611
00:30:03,130 --> 00:29:59,320
remained somebody as well

612
00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:03,140
and for Vanessa Bates mother of Max

613
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:06,980
peers the questions left behind were as

614
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:10,010
painful as the loss of her son and the

615
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:17,570
indeed by the time he was born just

616
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:19,650
special because he's my son and might

617
00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:22,290
know the rest part of the world that he

618
00:30:28,220 --> 00:30:24,990
was part of he saw a lot of good and a

619
00:30:31,430 --> 00:30:28,230
lot of light he believed we were in a

620
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:31,440
era of enlightenment and that it was on

621
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:33,210
a second of Renaissance happening yet

622
00:30:38,030 --> 00:30:36,240
there were those who would not wish for

623
00:30:40,580 --> 00:30:38,040
this to be so that the last thing they

624
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:40,590
wanted us enlightenment and they wanted

625
00:30:48,700 --> 00:30:45,440
to keep people closed and in place and

626
00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:48,710
that is what he saw as the darker side

627
00:30:55,010 --> 00:30:52,230
he thought that possibly the more he

628
00:30:57,950 --> 00:30:55,020
spoke out the more dangerous it became

629
00:31:00,410 --> 00:30:57,960
he said if I don't survive this month

630
00:31:02,510 --> 00:31:00,420
then you have to make sure that you look

631
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:02,520
into it I don't even know if it was the

632
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:04,410
people or if it was going to burn I

633
00:31:11,060 --> 00:31:06,510
don't know the answers but something

634
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:11,070
changed some how he got connected with a

635
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:14,580
darker side I want to know what happened

636
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:19,530
to my son massive massive gaps that are

637
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:21,570
extremely painful for me every morning

638
00:31:27,770 --> 00:31:24,360
that I wake up I worry about what

639
00:31:30,530 --> 00:31:27,780
happened to him I don't know I have no

640
00:31:32,180 --> 00:31:30,540
answers and it's more important to me I

641
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:32,190
never thought that I'd be in a position

642
00:31:35,090 --> 00:31:33,840
to be even talking about it but it's

643
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:35,100
more important to me to know what

644
00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:35,730
happened

645
00:31:43,289 --> 00:31:40,059
and whatever it is then not knowing

646
00:31:47,129 --> 00:31:43,299
but Vanessa Bates remembers the light in

647
00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:47,139
Max's life the good times and the joy he

648
00:31:50,669 --> 00:31:50,049
brought her and I'm sure in many

649
00:31:54,209 --> 00:31:50,679
different ways

650
00:31:57,450 --> 00:31:54,219
Morris Jessop Dorothy Kilgallen Frank

651
00:31:59,849 --> 00:31:57,460
Edwards Ron Romo and Phil Schneider did

652
00:32:02,999 --> 00:31:59,859
this same for those they encountered in

653
00:32:05,729 --> 00:32:03,009
their own lives and whether they like it

654
00:32:10,109 --> 00:32:05,739
or not they will go down in the annals

655
00:32:13,829 --> 00:32:10,119
of UFO lore both for their tragic ends

656
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:13,839
but also for the legacies they left

657
00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:15,090
behind

658
00:32:34,070 --> 00:32:32,330
somewhere in the skies is produced by

659
00:32:36,020 --> 00:32:34,080
Third Kind productions in association

660
00:32:37,820 --> 00:32:36,030
with the entertainment one podcast